Karen
GM Class
Queen of the Rainbow Light
A non-Junior League character.
Posts: 101
Leagues Played: Club League, Adult League, Falnorian, Life
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Post by Karen on Mar 18, 2013 15:20:43 GMT -8
We should certainly beat up the maimed cult, but we don't owe them anything.
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Post by ElfChild on Mar 18, 2013 15:46:45 GMT -8
Two things, guys.
1. GOD DAMNIT PEOPLE. WE ARE CAPABLE OF DEALING WITH THIS. The issue is not who gets blamed, it is not political. This is not the militia running around causing political problems. This is PEOPLE GETTING HURT WITH MORGANTI. Are we seriously going to point fingers and say "not me"? SERIOUSLY? People are getting hurt in unfixable ways, so instead of saying it's our fault or it's not, let's forget whose fault it is originally and DEAL WITH IT.
And we thought I needed a reality check.
2. We can deal with filaments. We have paladins. We have exorcism. We should be able to throw something together. That's actually not the biggest challenge here (though admittedly I don't enjoy fighting morganti wraiths either). The bigger issue from where I'm standing is making sure the Maimed understand why what they're doing is wrong so that they stop attempting it and so that we can get ALL the factions in Sorikonia on the same side for the fight against the dark city.
And of course there are even bigger issues but they're not as immediately fixable and not as immediately intertwined with this, so.
(Can you tell the difference between morning Allison and after school evening Allison? Yeah. Sorry about that.)
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ZackAttack
GM Class
Zack
Do you like my hat?
Posts: 72
Leagues Played: Battle League, Character League, Club League, Adult League, Crestfall, Falnorian, Life, Teriock
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Post by ZackAttack on Mar 18, 2013 17:46:02 GMT -8
I have a bit of input to make here. Not a solution, but rather an analysis of the situation that others can build off of: The issue as I see it is that they don't have any *real* targets for their revenge. Nobody around today is responsible, except maybe the filaments themselves, but that's sort of complicated and not really a valid target for revenge. They want *people* to take revenge on. But there aren't any true targets for it. Granted, there is a heck of a lot of gratification that comes from taking out your own issues by forcing them onto others. But it is not very nice and people should have the self-control not to do so. For the benefit of society and all that. They have every right to be angry and want revenge, but there are no defined targets.
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Scott
Man at Arms
Sir Scott of the Rainbow Light
Yeeeesssss?
Posts: 116
Leagues Played: Character League, Club League, Adult League, Falnorian
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Post by Scott on Mar 19, 2013 10:33:36 GMT -8
I agree with Alison on this one, at this point we are well beyond diplomacy actually being usefull, even at the levels of the martial masters (200+). In addition it would seem that disabling the maimed cult may not be as difficult as one may think (than again when it comes to Chris nothing is ever easy...), cspecially with old characters. However I think simply trying to convince them off our point of view after capturing them is not going to work very well. Yes the militia were reasonable people but you have to remember that they are driving by different goals. The militia wanted to protect themselves and their home, whereas the maimed desire revenge against those they perceive as having wronged them. This desire for revenge seems to have grown and turned into a much more lethal and general hate and disregard for anyone at all involved with the filliments, leading to issues like that of the tournament of the steps. They didn'tt care about anything except killing us, and as a result several civilians were almost killed. This cannot be allowed to continue, and even if they are not killed under sorikonian law they will be incarcerated for a very long time.
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Gorlan
GM Class
Dev
The best way to achieve balance is to remove everything from the scale%\0\%
Posts: 152
Leagues Played: Club League, Falnorian
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Post by Gorlan on Mar 19, 2013 11:20:05 GMT -8
Feel free to ignore this, since I won't be helping with this problem. I am pretty sure that what we ran into in the cave was the center of the cult. The problem is that there is no way to capture every single supporter or member. I totally agree that we are capable of handling this, but do not do so carelessly. What needs to happen is two things A: We need to discredit the maimed, kill any vampire associates and imprison their leader(s). B: We then need to start dealing with the filaments. If possible we need to find someone who knows where most of them are and go and mark each one. Then at a later date we can go and either individually exorcise them or find some other way (silver tubes).
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Post by ElfChild on Mar 19, 2013 18:57:13 GMT -8
Dev, I'm pretty sure they ARE discredited. This is what I keep trying to say. They attacked the Tournament of the Blades. This marks them instantly as enemies of anyone who was there or had relatives there or had friends there or cares about tradition and honor. We're in SORIKONIA, guys. That's a lot. Maybe that's even most. The maimed have lost the ability to rally large numbers of new members because they've alienated many if not most of the possible new members. Stop making this political. This is not an issue we can afford to make political, so lets cut the crap and deal with it.
Scott, you're right. Sitting them down in a room and talking at them? Probably not the number one most likely to work thing. On the bright side, there may be some poeple who are part of the cult because they legitimately want the issue adressed and hopefully we can find one or two of them and find stuff out. Meanwhile the murderous ones won't be able to do any damage because--oh yeah--they're in prison.
Dev again. No duh we start dealing with the filaments. We even have the capabilities to deal with the filaments in useful ways. But if the maimed are trying to stab us while we're dealing with exorcism rituals and the like, we may have issues. Which is why I keep suggesting we get them prison time. So we can deal with the issue before we let them roam the countryside again.
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Gorlan
GM Class
Dev
The best way to achieve balance is to remove everything from the scale%\0\%
Posts: 152
Leagues Played: Club League, Falnorian
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Post by Gorlan on Mar 20, 2013 7:43:42 GMT -8
When I say discredit, I mean to its members. We aren't able to imprison a whole cult, there are just too many of them. If we miss one group, then we run the risk of them starting it up again. But by all means, throw them in jail.
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Scott
Man at Arms
Sir Scott of the Rainbow Light
Yeeeesssss?
Posts: 116
Leagues Played: Character League, Club League, Adult League, Falnorian
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Post by Scott on Mar 20, 2013 9:05:59 GMT -8
Would it be possible (or probable) that the maimed keep a running list of all of the filaments they have encountered? It would make sense if they have mapped them out to prevent others from getting hurt or killed.
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Gorlan
GM Class
Dev
The best way to achieve balance is to remove everything from the scale%\0\%
Posts: 152
Leagues Played: Club League, Falnorian
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Post by Gorlan on Mar 20, 2013 9:16:23 GMT -8
That was what I wanted to do. Our first priority should be to stop this from happening again. I also suggested finding maimed people, and asking them to tell us where any filaments may be.
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Lily
Man at Arms
Quinn
Mm
Posts: 120
Leagues Played: Battle League, Character League, Club League, Adult League, Falnorian, Life
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Post by Lily on Mar 20, 2013 13:34:51 GMT -8
The problem is how to deal with the maimed cult. So what seems to be the solution as I can gather from this discussion is: We defeat them, put them in prison, and then talk with the more easy going members. While this is happening we get rid of the filaments and clean up the rest of the cult.
Defeating and imprisoning them is somewhat easy with last generation characters.
But finding people who are willing to talk is a bit harder. Now for this my input would be to ask the cult members individually, not as a group. This is because if you ask the cult as a whole the group would be vary responsive to the leader hence "Cult" (on that note do we know who the leader(s) are?). Also talk with the willing party secretly, This is for the willing individual's own safety if you know what I mean.
Hopefully that made sense.
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ZackAttack
GM Class
Zack
Do you like my hat?
Posts: 72
Leagues Played: Battle League, Character League, Club League, Adult League, Crestfall, Falnorian, Life, Teriock
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Post by ZackAttack on Mar 20, 2013 15:52:20 GMT -8
Yes, that made perfect sense. This is largely what I have been wanting to say, but I haven't because I am afraid to get involved in all of the arguments here and have to counter others. But at this point I can just agree with you. Thank you Quinn.
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Gorlan
GM Class
Dev
The best way to achieve balance is to remove everything from the scale%\0\%
Posts: 152
Leagues Played: Club League, Falnorian
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Post by Gorlan on Mar 20, 2013 16:59:10 GMT -8
I agree. However I want to raise two points. 1. There are a lot of filaments, we don't have the time to deal with all of them. I think perhaps there could be some other way to do it. 2. How many cultists are there? This was my main reason behind trying to discredit them. We don't have time to round up a couple hundred people. If we deal with the leaders then the rest of the cult should fall. This raises another point: How many people want to leave, but can't?
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Post by ElfChild on Mar 20, 2013 18:57:31 GMT -8
Quinn. Yes, understood, agreed with, thank-you.
Dev. I invite you to go do both of those things if you wish. Meanwhile I will be taking the imperfect but still more helpful than nothing path that we can execute now. While your thoughts are good, your approach does not seem to involve the immediate action that I think this issue demands. Find solutions to both of those by next club and I will happily listen to your solutions. I will not, however, delay action on account of not being perfect.
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Post by Celebfealor on Mar 20, 2013 20:23:37 GMT -8
All right. I've been kind of reluctant to enter the discussion until now, but here goes. #1 - I believe that Allison is correct. I will not postpone action in the hopes of finding some perfect solution; this is a problem that needs to be dealt with now, even if we don't have the perfect answer. If we find a better way to deal with things later on, we can change tactics. No waiting. #2 - This is a cult. Cults are usually held together and perpetuated by charismatic leaders (case in point: Zane). The last information that I had on the leaders of the Maimed is that they're largely somewhere between lvl 30-35? So that's pretty hefty, yes. But personally, I would rather take on a handful of high-level people than try to tackle a cultful of hundreds, especially when even the cult itself is going to be rife with morganti. No, targeting the leaders will not solve the problem completely - but I'll bet that with the leaders gone and nobody to organize it, the cult will suddenly find a lot of deserters and it won't be operating nearly as efficiently as it was before, which also helps. (And agreed with this point by Dev - "How many people want to leave, but can't?) #3 - The same point made in number one applies for the fillaments too. No, we don't have a perfect solution. But the fact is that these things are a danger, and even without doing it solely to appease the Maimed, they still need to be dealt with ASAP. The Maimed are just another reason to do it. Are we going to be able to get every single one of them? Probably not. But just because, say, you can't take down every single vampire on the face of the planet (speaking as someone who has tried ), doesn't mean that you shouldn't damn well try to get rid of as many as you can because they're a danger to pretty much everyone who's not also a vampire (or made of morganti, or whatever). We have to deal with the fillaments to the best of our ability, and yes that is probably going to involve a time-consuming roaming of the countryside and prodding everything with silver. Oh well. Too bad. It needs to be done anyway. #4 - As for not having the resources to deal with everything? Since when have we ever had all the resources we wanted to deal with stuff? Since when has anyone ever had all the resources they wanted to get their shit done? Since never, that's when. What we already have is good enough. We have old characters coming out of retirement. We have magical and silver items. Hell, we have a lot of people who are going to support us this time (unlike many other times when the common denomination of people hated our guts and the guts of whatever we were trying to accomplish) because the Maimed are that awful and nobody likes them anyway. Guys. Suck it up and deal with it.
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Lily
Man at Arms
Quinn
Mm
Posts: 120
Leagues Played: Battle League, Character League, Club League, Adult League, Falnorian, Life
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Post by Lily on Mar 21, 2013 5:34:28 GMT -8
Could some one come up with a list of our objectives...I'm sure I am not the only one who wants one.
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